Curved Braking

[DaBull]

Good article: http://www.continental-corporation.c...remsen_en.html

[Racinfan101]

Re: Curved Braking

Interesting...thanks for the share!

[RuaphuNZ]

Cheers DB, interesting read.
Ando


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[TS Tinker]

Re: Curved Braking

Interesting read but> For the most part anti lock brake systems are a good thing however if you have ever been in a situation where the anti lock over ride would have kept you from stopping you might think twice about wanting them on 2 wheels. Does yours have the ABS Derry?

[Easy Rider]

Re: Curved Braking

if you have ever been in a situation where the anti lock over ride would have kept you from stopping ......

And how exactly would you KNOW that ???

[DaBull]

Re: Curved Braking

Interesting read but> For the most part anti lock brake systems are a good thing however if you have ever been in a situation where the anti lock over ride would have kept you from stopping you might think twice about wanting them on 2 wheels. Does yours have the ABS Derry?

Negative on the ABS..... I do believe that I would like the ABS though

[DaCoop]

Re: Curved Braking

I rode a Voyager with ABS , im glad mine doesnt have it....

[TS Tinker]

Re: Curved Braking

And how exactly would you KNOW that ???

The last time it happened to me was just before Thanksgiving last year.

Despite popular belief the best traction control device in or on any vehicle is still the human operator. There are some highly sophisticated super cars that are all but UN-drivable with the traction controls off but us mere mortals will have little chance of experiencing that problem.

Don't get me wrong, for probably 60%(maybe more) of all drivers, ABS and traction control in general are a great advancement in driving safety. Every time my wife pulls out of the driveway in that technological nanny with traction control, curtain air bags, backup camera, blind spot notification, lane verification,etc....... I think even if the nanny doesn't make it home she will.
If you read or watch reviews on new vehicles from experienced riders/drivers usually one of the first comments is about turning off the traction systems or wishing they could.

From what I have read the KACT and most motorcycle traction control systems work by applying pressure to the brake that has traction. I know this is an over simplification of the process but bear with me for a second.

You are on your favorite twisty that was paved early in the year and you drive it 2 or 3 times a week so you know it well. It has been a funky week so letting out a little feels good. Your not draggin hard parts but pushing it. Setting up the most interesting bend in the run, a slightly off camber ascending radius right hander, coming out of the tight beginning in 2nd up shifting to 3rd and rolling on the throttle.

Nothing better, but then there it is, that drought stricken pine tree has dumped enough needles to cover a natural area 30'x30' 1/4" deep right in the middle of your good time and turned it into a nightmare. Traction control/ABS aint gonna to save your a$$ now.

The thing about ABS that most do not get, If there is no or little grip there are no or little brakes. Which means you can drive the vehicle straight to the crash sight. No turns, no sliding sideways, straight to the crash sight.

By the way, the reference to last Thanksgiving was one of those straight to the sight of the crash kind of things. I was hit, had what I thought was an opportunity to save the rig I was driving when ABS took over and took me straight to the sight of the crash. Granted it started as a crash but it could have been less than it was.

[TS Tinker]

Re: Curved Braking

Did anyone notice in the last paragraph of the article that the EU had voted to make Traction control measures mandatory on all motorcycles over 125cc? Whether you want it or not nanny is coming.

[Easy Rider]

Re: Curved Braking

Despite popular belief the best traction control device in or on any vehicle is still the human operator.

And then you went on to refute your own statement.

Thousands of tests have been done on all kinds of vehicles in all kinds of conditions and the TC almost always wins.......IF you don't try to outsmart it.

It was not designed or intended to save you ass from impossible situations that you create......race track like conditions that you went on to describe for instance.

It does not apply extra brake but releases the one where the wheel is not turning.

In your pine needle example, you are a LOT better off if the wheels keep turning as you cross that super-slick hazard.

But I do agree that a person who thinks like you do should NOT have ABS because you are convinced that it is no good and that will be a self fulfilling prophecy.

[TS Tinker]

Re: Curved Braking

"But I do agree that a person who thinks like you do should NOT have ABS because you are convinced that it is no good and that will be a self fulfilling prophecy."

I apologize for taking so long to answer but obviously I have hit some kind of nerve.

Your assessment of my personal experience and knowledge on the subject may be correct but let me fill in some blanks for you.

When I was 14 I watched my father replace the shoes on a front dumb brake of a 1969 Catalina. I did the other side with him watching and he said I was better at than he was.

That was in 1970. I have never paid anyone to do a brake job on anything I have owned and driven ever.

"And then you went on to refute your own statement."

I am not sure where you think I contradicted myself.

Thousands of tests have been done on all kinds of vehicles in all kinds of conditions and the TC almost always wins.......IF you don't try to outsmart it.

"It was not designed or intended to save you ass from impossible situations that you create......race track like conditions that you went on to describe for instance."

Both situations happened in the real world not on a race track.

The pine straw example was on two non ABS wheels and I hammered the rear brake to the point of chattering until I could stand the bike upright then hammered front and rear brakes to the point of chattering until I hit the straw at which point I released both to roll across the straw under control. No big deal just another day in the life.

In the other example I had 10 wheels on the ground. Of the 10, 4 were on the trailer I was pulling.That is 2 axles with surge brakes on one axle.

That leaves 6 ABS controlled wheels. The initial impact knocked me to the right. Not good but I didn't panic. There was a directional sign dead ahead but it was better than the 6' deep ditch. Then the ABS decided I was on the binders to hard and into the ditch I went. Although I was only doing about 45 mph. the truck hit the bottom of the ditch, went air born for 27' then came to rest in the bottom of the ditch. Hours later the head tow operator( I say head tow operator because it took three tow trucks to get my rig out of the ditch)and I were looking at the whole event and came to the conclusion that if I had not been pulling the trailer the truck would have rolled and I would probably not be discussing the outcome.

[twowheeladdict]

Re: Curved Braking

I think someone is confusing traction control and ABS.

Traction control is for when you break the tire loose while accelerating

ABS is when you apply too much brake and would have locked up the wheel if you didn't have ABS.

Traction Control can possibly save you from low siding or worse yet, high siding the bike.

ABS can save you from locking up the wheels and have the bike slide out from under you.

In the example with the pine needles you would have been down before you realize what is happening if you braked hard enough to activate the ABS, but didn't have it.

[Big D]

Re: Curved Braking

Great read and very interesting - appreciate the technology but whatever happened to the KISS method - keep it simple stupid!